stain brand

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stain brand

Postby brian62 » Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:51 pm

I think i goofed (again) I went ahead and used a red mahogany stain on the new deck and windshield framing of my 1960 sea lancer and it came out looking beautiful. The problem is i used Minwax brand stain and then read up on the hard luck storys of getting spar varnish to adhere to it. Any one got a thought or two?
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Postby John Hart » Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:27 am

I would let it dry a couple of weeks and then use CPES as a sealer/primer for varnish. That should provide better adhesion than what those other guys had w/o CPES.

I am not sure how quickly the bad effects materialize, but you could just CPES part of it first and see if everything stays on before doing the rest.

Seems to me that it would be worth a try, rather than trying to strip off the current stain.

John.
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Postby Torchie » Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:27 pm

Most of us like to use filler stains on our boats. Thin it out to the consistancy of thick house paint. Z-spar standard mahogany seems to be the stain of choice.
Having said that I would agree with John and try the CPES as a sealer. If you read the insrutctions on the CPES they say to apply the UV coat before it has fully cured for superior adhesion. You need to be careful appling the CPES as it may disturb your stain. You can call Smith's and talk to one of their reps about your situation. They are very helpfull.
Good Luck.
Karl.
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Postby brian62 » Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:21 am

Ok thank you for the info.I have a couple of test pieces i will try on first...
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Postby brian62 » Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:28 am

well that great looking stain job i did turned out bad.The stain(minwax) seems to have never dried and kind of gummed up.I put 2 coats on it 2 days apart in 70 degree weather.I did not sand between coats.The wood i used is a hard wood plywood that looks like birch wood.(box store best) It didnt have a name to it other than 3/8 hard wood plywood.Is it possible the wood doesn't take stain like a mahogany wood does? when i sanded before staining it seemed like there were glue spots coming thru the top surface wich i thought i sanded out.is it possible this wood is so cheap that im a peein in the wind???......again..Thank you for any info....Brian 62
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Postby Phill Blank » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:48 pm

brian62,

I am not sure if the problem is the wood or th stain. If the stain does not dry then I am thinking the stain. Is this stain a varnish stain combination that you are using or a straight stain? If it is a straight stain then I am thinking it is applied to heavily. Stain should be applied allowed to soak in and then wiped off with a rag and allowed to dry.
If it is a stain varnish combination the problem could be the product or the wood has something in it that is not allowing the varnish to cure.

You mention the plywood was from a Big Box Store and was their best grade. Number one Big Box Stores do not handle marine grade plywood and anything other then marine grade is not good to use. Most plywood at Big Box Stores has a softer interior veneer which will not hold up well in marine applications, even if it says exterior grade. It is not designed to be used for marine applications. On these plywoods the only veneer that is birch or mahogany, etc. is the thin outer ply. Everything else is generally a soft cheap grade of wood with no rot resistance.

Sorry to say, it sounds like it is time to strip everything and start over with marine grade plywood and marine grade stain and varnish.

Good Luck,

Phill
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Postby brian62 » Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:54 pm

Well you answered all my questions,I never wiped down the stain after applying the first coat.The stain i used was Minwax liquid(not paste)no varnish in it and after i put it on i read the posts on this site that a varnish wont take very well to this stain.The plywood is a mystery.Its very blond in color and it is the same wood thru out each layer.However i do like the start over theory.The new deck pieces are off the boat so no labor there and i can just use them as patterns.I have now obtained the knowledge to do this the correct way.(i swear i am going to read the posts on this site before i tackle the next phase).Thank you very much Phil.I do appreciate the help.Hey maybe i can write a book titled THE DO NOT DO's OF REBUILDING A THOMPSON BOAT (<:
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Postby Phill Blank » Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:25 pm

brain62,

You may have purchased a birch plywood often called Baltic Birch or Scadinavian Birch. It is a high quality birch plywood which does have birch veneer in all plies of the plywood. Only problem unless it is marine grade the adhesives used are not good for marine service.

I have used this in furnature building, but not anything that I used on my boats.

If at any time anyone has a questions regarding wooden boats, Thompson or others, this site is a great place to ask questions and get some good answers.

Good luck,

Phill
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Postby brian62 » Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:54 pm

Well for what its worth, i was told by a carpenter friend that i could use any hardwood plywood on my boat as long as i seal both sides and the edges with stain and varnish to seal out any water.Is it safe to say that marine plywood adhesive holds up longer and better with all the flexing a boat does?Or is there other reasons?... Brian
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Postby LancerBoy » Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:37 am

Your carpenter friend should stick to carpentry advice and avoid boat advice.

Use MARINE products for a boat. Avoid non-marine products. Marine plywood will be made from a decay resistant species and will not have voids and will utilize waterproof adhesive. The same cannot be said of non-marine plywood.

Moisture can easily get thru stain and varnish. So if you have a non-marine plywood, you may eventually get decay.

You should be using Okume or Meranti plywood for the deck of your 1960 Sea Lancer. The original plywood was Philippine mahogany, but that is no longer available. Okume and Meranti are very close cousins to Phillipine mahogany.

I assume that the Minwax stain you utilized is also not a marine product. That could be the reason for the problems you have encountered. I am not familiar with Minwax and can not make any productive comments.

Sorry you are encountering problems.

Andreas
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Postby brian62 » Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:07 pm

Thanks for the advice,I Dont mind making errors and starting over.I should of done some research from boat builders but one would think a carpenter would have had a better understanding of wood products.The average person like myself wouldn't have a clue as to the differences in woods .Same for the stain i used.It probably belongs on kitchen cabinets.Again the average person wouldnt know to use a paste stain that is marine grade over the box store stuff but im learning as i go...Thanks again....Brian 62
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