1960 Cruisers Seafarer repower with newer 4 stroke.

Suggestions, concerns, and what is the correct power plant for your Thompson.

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1960 Cruisers Seafarer repower with newer 4 stroke.

Postby Cruisers1960WI » Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:22 am

We currently have a 1960 75 hp Johnson OB on our 16 foot Seafarer. The magneto is not happy, difficult to find parts for and the fuel consumption is 'thirsty'. We are looking at the newer 50 and 60 hp Mercury four strokes but have noticed in other subjects that these boats had 35 and 40 hp OB's on them originally. Any thoughts? Would a 40 hp four stroke get the boat up on plane easily with four people aboard?
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Postby Bill Dunn » Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:18 pm

From everything I have heard about the four stroke outboards, they are quiet and great on gas but they lack power on the low end. My brother has a 30 hp Honda four stroke and said it comparable to a 25 two stroke on the 14 ft flat that he has. I personally would stay with about the same hp or maybe a little more to get the same performance on the low end. Maybe some other guys have run bigger 4 strokes and might have a different opinion. COME ON SPRING!

Bill
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Postby GulfCoastThompson » Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:04 pm

the mecury is going to give you better power than the honda. If it were me I would still go for the 60 as you could run lower RPMS and save even more gas.
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Postby thegammas » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:20 am

I'd vote for a 2-stroke as well. Last year I was considering re-powering. I spoke with a few different marinas and a couple of dealers at boat shows and they all had similar opinions. What I write below is from what I heard.

The fours are much heavier at the same HP than a 2-stroke and require much more frequent maintenance because of course they have valve trains, oil pumps and pans, etc etc. The 2-strokes have much better low end torque. They also rev up faster than four strokes through out the RPM range, because each revolution is a power stroke and there is no valve train to spin.

The newer two strokes, such as the Merc opti-max and the Evinrude e-tec are far quieter, fuel efficient , and clean running than even 5 - 10 years ago. The latest models, say within the last 5 years, are actually very close to the fours in all three categories, but with out the weight and maintenance penalties. In fact, I was talking to a dealer at a show whom sells full lines of Mercs and Evinrudes. I told him I was in no position to buy, "So what would you put on your boat?" The answer was "the Evinrude e-tec without a doubt".

Personally, I think the new 2-strokes will start to displace the fours again in just the next few years. If you are looking to buy a new or a good used motor less than say 5 years old, I'd give serious consideration to a 2-stroke.

GO check out the e-Tecs on the Envinrude web site. Last I looked at it they had some compelling demonstrations and technical information (that clearly sold me )
Peter Stransky
1962 Cortland Custom Sea Lancer
Wilmington, Delaware
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Postby Bill Dunn » Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:02 pm

I agree with Peter on this one with the choices of motors. I forgot about the large weight difference between the two. Even with the 30 hp it is 40 to 50 lbs. On a larger motor the weight difference is obviously more. Also the increased maintainance adds on to the higher purchase price. Everyone that I have talked to with the newer 2 strokes are happy with the performance and the increased gas mileage.
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Postby john » Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:21 pm

I do own a 1960 Cruisers Inc 202. I own both a 1960 Evinrude 75 and 40 hp. The 40 has never not been able to get on plane, a very good match for the hull. I get 25 to 28 miles per 6 gal tank with the 40 and 11 to 18 with the 75.

I run my 1960 Evinrude 40 on my 16' jon boat also, it pushes it 35 mph gps at it's best, my 2006 Merc 25 4 stroke get a little past 36 gps. The 25 Merc 4 stroke is slighty better than the 1960 40 in top speed. The 25 4 stroke gets about 19 mpg on the jon boat at 20 mph and the 1960 40 gets about 7 mpg.

Old engines were rated at crank shaft, new at prop. An old 40 is propably only 30 at the prop shaft, combine this with the newer engines have better streamlined gear cases and superior props, 40 to 50 is the max I would recommend for our boats. Either E Tech or 4 stroke.

In fact I'm thinking my 2006 Merc 4 stroke might be the perfect engine for for 16' Cruiser's 202. By the way it weights 25 more pounds than my old 40hp Evinrude! Top speed should be about 26/28 with one and 21/23 with 4 adults. Other than the cost, I just have a hard time updating an engine on an old boat, just does not seem right.

Your 75 weghts about 230#, 40 about 140# and the new 25 Merc 4 stroke 165#.

Your present engine is easier to get parts for than many new ones. I have to secial order parts for my Merc 2006 25, but I can get most parts for 1960 Evinrudes off the shelf at my local dealer. www.aomci.org is a great soure of parts.

The other consideration, is you hull in great shape, it might not tolerate a large increase in hp, a new engine could provide.

Call me if it helps 832 473 8928
Last edited by john on Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Cruisers1960WI » Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:42 pm

According to the sales brochure the weight of the 50/60 hp Mercury 4 stroke is 247 pounds. The 50/60 hp Evinrude E-Tec weight is 240 pounds. The 40 hp Mercury 4 stroke weighs 204 pounds and the 40 hp Evinrude E-Tec weighs 232 pounds. I was suprised by the weightsa of the Evinrude 2 strokes.
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Postby john » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:06 am

From the catalogs found at www.old-omc.de the weight of a 1960 Johnson long shaft is 220# and the 40 electric is 141#

Weight is still in reason for any of the engines you are considering,

The weights for the Merc 4 strokes include gas lift and power trim for the 50 hp. Probably not much difference in weights for gas lift and power trim on the 40hp. Power trim could easily add 5 mph to top speed to either 40 or 50, well worth while. Considering you would only need to carry at half the gas, one 6 gal instead of two, at 50 pounds for a full 6 gallon tank, total weight is not a huge issue. Would not be surprised to see needing to carry 1/3 the gas and maybe 1/4 as compared to a 1960 75, at 50 pounds a 6 gallon tank, could make a huge difference.

Total weight, should not be confused with weight on actual transom, especialy important for trailering. In any case when trailering a support bar from gearcase to trailer should be used.

Depending on condition of you boat, the added punch from a new motor could be of concern. My transom, when I purchased by Cruisers was ok, it was not until I rebuilt the boat did I see how marginal it was, scary at best, even though the boat had a very good outward apparence. www.aerialimaging.net/john

Best quess is 40 hp with power trim could, be very close in performance of a 1960 75 hp. Without power trim, you would need the 50 hp to equal your 75 performance.

Based on my experience with my 25 Merc 4 stroke in comparison with my 1960 Evinrude 40, I would expect the Merc 25 to be faster than my 40, especialy if the 25 had power trim. Acceleration would be slower, but still ok. If my 25 Merc had a long shaft, I would have alrady tried it on my Cruisers. If you could borrow a 25 or 40 long shaft with tiller, it would give you a very good idea of watch you need to buy. With the 25 I would try a 10" pitch prop. I run a 12 on my 16' jon boat.

The feel of acceleration has 2 components, actual punch and noise, the new motors being a lot quiter, makes the same acceleeration time seem slower.

Careful selection of a prop is critcal to good performance, with all engines.
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Postby Michael J. Seiber » Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:03 am

I have a 1975 75 HP Evinrude on the back of my 1963 202. It seems to be a good match. I thought about putting a motor on it that was closer to the year it was built but decided against it because i just love the way it performs as is.
My experience with my sixteen foot aluminum fishing boat is that at one time I had a 25 Johnson two stroke on it. It was way under powered with a couple of people in it. I got tired of it and bought a fourty eight hp Evinrude for it. The thought amongst all my family and friends was that my fuel economy would go way down. Not so! I no longer had to go full throttle evrywhere I went and actually near doubled my mileage.
Then came the day I put a 60 Hp three cylinder on it that I had just rebiult so I could break it in. I never took it back off and lost nothing on mileage.
That said the condition of the boat/tramsom must be considered before putting a larger motor on.
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Postby john » Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:41 am

Your 1975 Evinrude 75 is a 3 cyl looper, with great performance and fuel economy, probably 1/2 the fuel of a old V4 75hp. It's weight is about 202 pounds listed for a 1975 Johnson 70hp, the 75 listest is the high performance model.

What performance do you see, how about the old engine it replaced any numbers for it?

Was you old 25hp a small block or large, the 25's switched from a 22 ci block to about 35 ci in about the late 70's. The first small blocks were about 1970. My Merc 25 4 stroke out preforms my old 1981 Evinrude 25 large block by 2 mph and uses half the fuel. In comparison between the old 25 small block and the Merc 4 stroke, I would guess about 5 mph. The small block would be very critical on prop pitch. The od 25 was also crank shaft hp not prop.
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Postby Michael J. Seiber » Thu Feb 25, 2010 4:09 pm

It was a 1982 25 Johnson. Great engine but hard on gas. I had two props for it . It depended on how much weight i had in the boat as to which prop I used.
The 202 originaly had a forty hp on it. In 1975 the owner decided to put the 75 hp on it. The reason I know this is I have all the original bills of sales for the original boat and motor and the 75 hp motor. The same marina installed both.
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Postby john » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:48 pm

Michael

You had the best 25, same as my 1981 Evinrude 25. Lots of power, maybe you had a large 16' fishing bost, mine is a 250 pound flat bottom jon boat, really not that much smaller than my Cruiser 202 at 650 pounds.

How fast will your 3 cyl 75 push your boat?
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Postby Michael J. Seiber » Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:18 am

It gets up to thirty five miles an hour. It gets there in a hurry. If I would put a steeper pitch prop on it it would go faster but thirty five is fast enough for me.
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Installing a 2000 50 hp Evinrude 4 stroke

Postby Cruisers1960WI » Mon May 28, 2012 7:12 pm

Found a newer outboard :D and need the 2000 model Predelivery and Installation Guide for Evinrude. I have the Evinrude Service Manual 2000 SS and it does not cover the MWS system installation. The Evinrude website only has the 2011 and 2012 ETEC installation guides.
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Postby Cruisers1960WI » Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:46 pm

The 2000 Evinrude 50 HP four stroke works great. Twenty-eight MPH at 5500 RPM with about 450 lbs of people and gear aboard. This is the same speed that the 75 hp 1960 Johnson ran full throttle. The old 2 stroke was deafening. You can run 6500 RPM with the four stroke if you want but speeds over 30 MPH are squirrelly. Any one moving around and you loose the comfort level. We find cruising at 20 to 24 MPH at 4500 RPM is much more comfortable. Even at 28 MPH you can have a decent conversation with the four stroke. Our youngest daughter thought the engine quit when we entered a no wake zone it is so quiet. We are suprised with the super tight turing radius at just above no wake speed and below. You can pivot on the inside bow. Turning at high speed...not recommended. The Seafarer will save you by cavitating. Just pull back on the throttle and go again. Fuel consumption is miserly by comparison. Where before we would go through 6 gallons in 45 minutes with the old 2 stroke we can now be out running and exploring for 2 hours and use about 2 gallons. The EFI four stroke is well worth it. :D
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