And so it begins....
Bill's 1957 Peshtigo Thompson Sea Lancer
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Bill's 1957 Peshtigo Thompson Sea Lancer
This is where I'll be posting progress on the repair & restoration of my 1957 Sea Lancer, just purchased today from Dave "1957Creaky". Old topic was "My boat is sick".
And so it begins....
And so it begins....
Bill Eason
Atlanta, GA
Today's progress 1/23/08
Well, the weather dried up and it was low/mid 40's, plus I had some spare time to "play"! I've fully documented every step before & after in photos, and I'm putting each set of screws or nails into labeled baggies, because there's no way I'd remember it all by the time I put it back together.
First, I removed the side window stops & glass and removed the two visible screws hiding beneath. The aft ends of the windshield frame were still held by some invisible screws. I found holes under the outside edge of the gunwale where there apparently had been screws once, but no more. The top edge of the windshield frame had a single bung on each side (port & starboard). I used the trick where you drill a small (1/8" or less) hole into the bung until you find metal. Then slowly drive a sheetrock screw into the pilot hole. When the sheetrock screw bottoms out on the underlying screw head, keep driving slowly, and it pops the bung right out.
With that done, I proceeded to remove the bulkhead under the bow, and all but two of the windshield hold-down screws. Finally, I got the driver's seat removed and am on my way on the port side seat. Those things must have been built in place and never intended to be removed, given the contortions I had to go through to reach the screws attaching them to the hull!
SO -- what did I find that I didn't already know about?
1. Some rot on the outer keelson pieces where it meets the stem
2. Some rot on one or two frame ends where they meet the keelson in the same spot, port side
3. A couple of poorly patched frames (i.e. pieced-in, not scarfed) in the same area, stbd side
Beyond that, everything above the waterline looks stellar, and the front 3/4 below the waterline (so far) looks decent, other than the above items. I fully expect to see some frame end rot once I open up the bottom.
A few photo highlights, first the bung removal tip:
And here's the newly-discovered rot and frame patches:
First, I removed the side window stops & glass and removed the two visible screws hiding beneath. The aft ends of the windshield frame were still held by some invisible screws. I found holes under the outside edge of the gunwale where there apparently had been screws once, but no more. The top edge of the windshield frame had a single bung on each side (port & starboard). I used the trick where you drill a small (1/8" or less) hole into the bung until you find metal. Then slowly drive a sheetrock screw into the pilot hole. When the sheetrock screw bottoms out on the underlying screw head, keep driving slowly, and it pops the bung right out.
With that done, I proceeded to remove the bulkhead under the bow, and all but two of the windshield hold-down screws. Finally, I got the driver's seat removed and am on my way on the port side seat. Those things must have been built in place and never intended to be removed, given the contortions I had to go through to reach the screws attaching them to the hull!
SO -- what did I find that I didn't already know about?
1. Some rot on the outer keelson pieces where it meets the stem
2. Some rot on one or two frame ends where they meet the keelson in the same spot, port side
3. A couple of poorly patched frames (i.e. pieced-in, not scarfed) in the same area, stbd side
Beyond that, everything above the waterline looks stellar, and the front 3/4 below the waterline (so far) looks decent, other than the above items. I fully expect to see some frame end rot once I open up the bottom.
A few photo highlights, first the bung removal tip:
And here's the newly-discovered rot and frame patches:
Bill Eason
Atlanta, GA
Great bung technique!
Bill
Did you get her in the basement yet?
I've got the ThomBoy down to the motor. I'm going to buy a chain hoist and weld up a bar to put between the ceiling joist to get this 260 lb monster off.
Possibly use it to turn boat over as well. Cradle one end and rotate with mattress below.
I've got a couple broken frames. Looking for you to get that steamer fired up.
Talk to you soon.
Did you get her in the basement yet?
I've got the ThomBoy down to the motor. I'm going to buy a chain hoist and weld up a bar to put between the ceiling joist to get this 260 lb monster off.
Possibly use it to turn boat over as well. Cradle one end and rotate with mattress below.
I've got a couple broken frames. Looking for you to get that steamer fired up.
Talk to you soon.
Lost your phone number
Bill
Give me a call at your convenience.
404 422 7125
Larry
Give me a call at your convenience.
404 422 7125
Larry
Nope, she's still at the bottom of my driveway under that new HF tarp. I really haven't made any progress since I posted that last update. Last weekend was largely spent getting my C22 hauled off by the new owners. They had hired U-Haul to wire their Odyssey for electric brakes. Apparently, it had taken several trips to the shop, after which they showed up at my house ~9am Sat. with the wrong connector on the van. Another trip to U-Haul to purchase an adapter, and it still was all hosed. I was checking signals with a meter, nothing made sense. Another trip to U-Haul. No luck. They finally gave up and we found a trailer shop that would look at their van that day (by now it was ~1pm on Saturday). He completely rewired it, new brake controller, etc. By this time I had left to go to the woodworking show down near the airport.
He called me again around 4pm, at my house. Finally all the lights are working, but the brakes are locked up. The new installer had the wire for the brakes and the auxiliary 12V swapped, even though I had sent the pinout from Champion Trailers that I had used. He said he had wired it to "the" standard, but there appear to be two "standards." By this time, we had to punt and reset for Sunday afternoon. It did turn out to be a simple matter of switching the two wires, and the folks were off. But all this shot a hole in most of my weekend!
Maybe this weekend....
-wte
PS - Very cool that you can weld. That's on my list of things to learn someday. Believe me, I'm itching to fire up that steam box, too! (As soon as I build it.)
PPS - I did get a couple of guys to help me get my ???lb motor into my garage on Sat. It had been riding around in the back of my pickup under another tarp since Monday!
He called me again around 4pm, at my house. Finally all the lights are working, but the brakes are locked up. The new installer had the wire for the brakes and the auxiliary 12V swapped, even though I had sent the pinout from Champion Trailers that I had used. He said he had wired it to "the" standard, but there appear to be two "standards." By this time, we had to punt and reset for Sunday afternoon. It did turn out to be a simple matter of switching the two wires, and the folks were off. But all this shot a hole in most of my weekend!
Maybe this weekend....
-wte
PS - Very cool that you can weld. That's on my list of things to learn someday. Believe me, I'm itching to fire up that steam box, too! (As soon as I build it.)
PPS - I did get a couple of guys to help me get my ???lb motor into my garage on Sat. It had been riding around in the back of my pickup under another tarp since Monday!
Bill Eason
Atlanta, GA
Well, today I've been in the gradual process of taking this old boat apart. That means taking the pretty stuff off so that I can see what's ugly beneath that needs replacing and/or repairing. First off, there's more rot in the frames than I had originally seen, although I always expected to find more as I progressed... I guess I'm just at that point of illumination regarding the job ahead. From what I can tell, the garboards have previously been replaced and thus are not in bad shape. The first 3-4 strakes from there up to the waterline have varying degrees of softness/rot.
What I am a little surprised at is the number of frames that: (a) are rotten, (b) are cracked, or (c) have been poorly patched - not providing real structural support, just filling in a new piece of wood. That was probably all done when the bottom was replaced. Ultimately, though, replacing 2X frames is not twice the work of replacing X frames because of everything I have to do just to prepare for replacing any frames. I think once I'm at that point, the actual frame replacement should go relatively quickly.
I now have the windshield off, both front seats out, and the flooring (3/8" plywood & masonite) out. My next step is to diagram the entire boat, showing every frame and structural member, and then survey what all needs to be replaced. I'm still not sure yet whether I'm going to start all this with the boat right-side up or upside down, so I'm not taking it of the trailer just yet.
Photos and questions to follow!!!
-wte
What I am a little surprised at is the number of frames that: (a) are rotten, (b) are cracked, or (c) have been poorly patched - not providing real structural support, just filling in a new piece of wood. That was probably all done when the bottom was replaced. Ultimately, though, replacing 2X frames is not twice the work of replacing X frames because of everything I have to do just to prepare for replacing any frames. I think once I'm at that point, the actual frame replacement should go relatively quickly.
I now have the windshield off, both front seats out, and the flooring (3/8" plywood & masonite) out. My next step is to diagram the entire boat, showing every frame and structural member, and then survey what all needs to be replaced. I'm still not sure yet whether I'm going to start all this with the boat right-side up or upside down, so I'm not taking it of the trailer just yet.
Photos and questions to follow!!!
-wte
Bill Eason
Atlanta, GA
Ready to help
Bill
I know you have some work there. When the time comes to have a couple extra hands (steaming or fastening planks) give me a call.
Larry
I know you have some work there. When the time comes to have a couple extra hands (steaming or fastening planks) give me a call.
Larry
Well, things are moving right along on this project. Since so many frames will have to be replaced, and since I shouldn't be sanding that old lead paint to find the screws, I decided to completely strip the boat's paint. This will allow me to know exactly where every screw head is, determine the condition of the underlying wood a bit better, and everything will be starting from common ground when I repaint. I can also seal those plank edges better now.
There's still a little more to go on the topsides, mostly on the starboard side, although I'm not completely stripping it where I'm going to be replacing planking. Why bother? I just need to know where those screw heads are.
Also, I've confirmed that the garboards have been replaced, because they're not of fir ply (probably mahogany of some variety), and they only have one color of paint, not original lead white primer + lead yellow topcoat + newer white topcoat. I'm assuming that the boat was converted to white whenever that work was done.
Quick questions:
1. Are the frames/ribs screwed into the sister keelsons from below, or just into the keelson "cheeks"?
2. When doing a test frame removal, I found that the last frame was not attached at all into the sheerclamp, only into the planking, but I'm assuming that every X frames, there's a screw all the way through the sandwich at the sheer (inner mahogany, inner oak, frame, sheer strake, outer mahogany gunwale.
3. Any idea which frames or how often?
4. Will I then have to disassemble the gunwales to get those frames out?
Here's the progress from the past couple of weeks:
There's still a little more to go on the topsides, mostly on the starboard side, although I'm not completely stripping it where I'm going to be replacing planking. Why bother? I just need to know where those screw heads are.
Also, I've confirmed that the garboards have been replaced, because they're not of fir ply (probably mahogany of some variety), and they only have one color of paint, not original lead white primer + lead yellow topcoat + newer white topcoat. I'm assuming that the boat was converted to white whenever that work was done.
Quick questions:
1. Are the frames/ribs screwed into the sister keelsons from below, or just into the keelson "cheeks"?
2. When doing a test frame removal, I found that the last frame was not attached at all into the sheerclamp, only into the planking, but I'm assuming that every X frames, there's a screw all the way through the sandwich at the sheer (inner mahogany, inner oak, frame, sheer strake, outer mahogany gunwale.
3. Any idea which frames or how often?
4. Will I then have to disassemble the gunwales to get those frames out?
Here's the progress from the past couple of weeks:
Bill Eason
Atlanta, GA
Hey Bill,
I promised some time ago to look at my 1957 Peshtigo built Sea Lancer. Well, the temps were above zero last weekend...so I putzed around with the boat.
The floor risers that supprt the edges of the floor boards along the hullsides are 3/8 inch below the level of the sister keelson and other floor framing.
To answer your most recent questions:
1. ribs are screwed AND nailed to the keelson and sister keelsons (stringers) from below. After this was done, the workers attached the garboard planks. So, to get at those fasteners, the garboard planks must come off (or you cut them with a hack saw blade from inside the boat).
2. I don't know. Just looked at my '57 Lancer and I cannot tell without ripping the covering boards and other stuff off.
3. no
4. probably yes
I am surprised you left the hardware and Thompsopn chromed logos on te
he boat while you are doing this work. I'd recommended taking it all off and storing it. Put items in plastic zip lock bags with the screws. Also map the location of the hardware on the boat and make a drawing before removal.
Andreas
I promised some time ago to look at my 1957 Peshtigo built Sea Lancer. Well, the temps were above zero last weekend...so I putzed around with the boat.
The floor risers that supprt the edges of the floor boards along the hullsides are 3/8 inch below the level of the sister keelson and other floor framing.
To answer your most recent questions:
1. ribs are screwed AND nailed to the keelson and sister keelsons (stringers) from below. After this was done, the workers attached the garboard planks. So, to get at those fasteners, the garboard planks must come off (or you cut them with a hack saw blade from inside the boat).
2. I don't know. Just looked at my '57 Lancer and I cannot tell without ripping the covering boards and other stuff off.
3. no
4. probably yes
I am surprised you left the hardware and Thompsopn chromed logos on te
he boat while you are doing this work. I'd recommended taking it all off and storing it. Put items in plastic zip lock bags with the screws. Also map the location of the hardware on the boat and make a drawing before removal.
Andreas
Hey guys -- Thanks for the answers!
Since I'm trying not to touch the brightwork, I've left any deck hardware on that I don't have to take off. That stbd Thompson logo is still there because I hadn't yet documented exactly where it is located. It will come off this week before stripping that last area.
Typically, I'm holding a tape measure against the various members and shooting digital photos, archived by date. I'm also keeping a log of what I do each day. When I remove screws, I bag them according to purpose, AND it occurred to me part-way into this job that I should also label the bags with the DATE that the screws were taken out. Then I can go back to my photos and/or log and answer any questions when it comes time to put this lady back together. All the bags are labeled with notes on the INSIDE of the bag, so nothing can rub off or fall off and get lost.
Those metal plates were added by the previous owner to reinforce a split he said was opening in the transom -- must have been on the inside layer where the planks run vertically. I'm not sure. When I get the hull in better shape, I'll probably be removing the transom and rebuilding it. At that point I'll decide whether to plug or replace as needed. I think there's a bit of rot on the inside near the bottom.
Since I'm trying not to touch the brightwork, I've left any deck hardware on that I don't have to take off. That stbd Thompson logo is still there because I hadn't yet documented exactly where it is located. It will come off this week before stripping that last area.
Typically, I'm holding a tape measure against the various members and shooting digital photos, archived by date. I'm also keeping a log of what I do each day. When I remove screws, I bag them according to purpose, AND it occurred to me part-way into this job that I should also label the bags with the DATE that the screws were taken out. Then I can go back to my photos and/or log and answer any questions when it comes time to put this lady back together. All the bags are labeled with notes on the INSIDE of the bag, so nothing can rub off or fall off and get lost.
Those metal plates were added by the previous owner to reinforce a split he said was opening in the transom -- must have been on the inside layer where the planks run vertically. I'm not sure. When I get the hull in better shape, I'll probably be removing the transom and rebuilding it. At that point I'll decide whether to plug or replace as needed. I think there's a bit of rot on the inside near the bottom.
Bill Eason
Atlanta, GA
Stripper Brand Name
Bill
What brand stripper did you use. I bought two types at Depot. Both are slow to work. I think there is at least 4 coats of paint on the boat.
Larry
What brand stripper did you use. I bought two types at Depot. Both are slow to work. I think there is at least 4 coats of paint on the boat.
Larry
Hi Larry -
I've tried four different kinds of strippers. Here's my assessment:
1. Klean Strip's "Premium Sprayable Stripper" from Home Depot, ~$20. This is one of the standard very caustic products, and is very fast acting -- 15 minutes. I bought a 1-gallon can that came with a little spray bottle. I've sprayed and brushed with good effect. It takes off varnish, the original lead paint and primer, and the newer topsides paint which I assume is a (poly)urethane paint. It contains methylene chloride, nasty stuff. I buy the blue nitrile rubber gloves by the box of 100 at Harbor Freight, and a drip or splatter of this gelatinous goo will cause the glove to form a sort of blister, and if it's in contact with my skin (through the glove), I'll start to feel a tingly burn. I go through a lot of gloves that way. It does dry out pretty quickly, so only spray the area you're ready to work on right then.
2. Citristrip, 1 qt jug at Home Depot, $10-$12. I decided to try a more human-friendly product. This product might be sprayable, but I used a 2" chip brush. It's a much slower-acting stripper. It did cause the new topsides paint to wrinkle/blister, and it seemed to soften the original paint below, but not impressively.
3. Bull's Eye Safer Paint & Finish Remover by Zinsser's, 1 qt sprayer at Home Depot, $10-$12. Again, a much safer product, said to be slower-acting as well. I sprayed a section of the topsides with this product. 24 hours later, I had to wipe it off with paper towels because it hadn't done squat. Could be that the newer topsides paint is polyurethane and this isn't meant to take that off. I may save this for stripping varnish later.
4. Multi-Strip by Back To Nature, 1 gal tub at General Ace Hardware, $40. This and the Klean-Strip have been my workhorses. This product is one of many produced by BTN, including Ready-Strip, Ready-Strip Marine and Aqua-Strip (marine-specific), to name a few. Jamestown Distributors carries a few of these, particularly the marine products. Some versions will also eat 2-part epoxy. I went with the Multi-Strip because I found it locally for a reasonably competitive price. Yes, it's twice the price of the caustic stuff, but for the extra $20 I just feel much better about using it. You can leave it on for 24+ hours, and it's said to remove 15+ layers of paint. In my case, it did pretty well after 24 hours, but I've also been using it well below the recommended 60-80 degrees F. You brush this on very thick, let it sit, then scrape the goo and paint off later. It's about like thin peanut butter in color and viscosity. In warmer weather (tomorrow - 70!) I'd think an hour or two would do pretty well. I noticed last weekend the Klean Strip didn't seem to do too well at 50 degrees, either.
Hope this helps,
-wte
I've tried four different kinds of strippers. Here's my assessment:
1. Klean Strip's "Premium Sprayable Stripper" from Home Depot, ~$20. This is one of the standard very caustic products, and is very fast acting -- 15 minutes. I bought a 1-gallon can that came with a little spray bottle. I've sprayed and brushed with good effect. It takes off varnish, the original lead paint and primer, and the newer topsides paint which I assume is a (poly)urethane paint. It contains methylene chloride, nasty stuff. I buy the blue nitrile rubber gloves by the box of 100 at Harbor Freight, and a drip or splatter of this gelatinous goo will cause the glove to form a sort of blister, and if it's in contact with my skin (through the glove), I'll start to feel a tingly burn. I go through a lot of gloves that way. It does dry out pretty quickly, so only spray the area you're ready to work on right then.
2. Citristrip, 1 qt jug at Home Depot, $10-$12. I decided to try a more human-friendly product. This product might be sprayable, but I used a 2" chip brush. It's a much slower-acting stripper. It did cause the new topsides paint to wrinkle/blister, and it seemed to soften the original paint below, but not impressively.
3. Bull's Eye Safer Paint & Finish Remover by Zinsser's, 1 qt sprayer at Home Depot, $10-$12. Again, a much safer product, said to be slower-acting as well. I sprayed a section of the topsides with this product. 24 hours later, I had to wipe it off with paper towels because it hadn't done squat. Could be that the newer topsides paint is polyurethane and this isn't meant to take that off. I may save this for stripping varnish later.
4. Multi-Strip by Back To Nature, 1 gal tub at General Ace Hardware, $40. This and the Klean-Strip have been my workhorses. This product is one of many produced by BTN, including Ready-Strip, Ready-Strip Marine and Aqua-Strip (marine-specific), to name a few. Jamestown Distributors carries a few of these, particularly the marine products. Some versions will also eat 2-part epoxy. I went with the Multi-Strip because I found it locally for a reasonably competitive price. Yes, it's twice the price of the caustic stuff, but for the extra $20 I just feel much better about using it. You can leave it on for 24+ hours, and it's said to remove 15+ layers of paint. In my case, it did pretty well after 24 hours, but I've also been using it well below the recommended 60-80 degrees F. You brush this on very thick, let it sit, then scrape the goo and paint off later. It's about like thin peanut butter in color and viscosity. In warmer weather (tomorrow - 70!) I'd think an hour or two would do pretty well. I noticed last weekend the Klean Strip didn't seem to do too well at 50 degrees, either.
Hope this helps,
-wte
Bill Eason
Atlanta, GA