double keel or not?

stampbj · Post by **stampbj** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 9:32 am

On my '63 Seamate I'm replacing the entire keel from stem to stern, as well as the rear 8 feet of the garboard planks. And splicing new ends onto most of the ribs.
I've done some minor wood replacement in the 20+ years I've had this boat, but nothing this big.

I have two, full length 1 3/8" white oak planks, (6/4, plained both sides) and if I use these joined face to face, to make a keelson of 2 3/4" wide I won't need to repair as many ribs since some ribs would only need to be trimed back to solid wood, about an inch to allow the wider keelson to fit.

To this I would be adding the sisters, about 7/8" on each side for a total width of about 4 1/2". When I see all this clamped together it looks like overkill. It is a lot of wood. The extra plank would add about 20 lbs.

Or I could use only one plank for the keelson, that would be only a 1/4" wider than the orig., but I would need to repair 10 - 12 more ribs.

What would you do?

Thanks for any advice and for making this a great website!
Brad

john · Post by **john** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 1:58 pm

Wider keel. the pictures are in the link below.

Link has more than just the 1960 16' Cruisers inc.

I did exactly what you are thinking of, it worked great, saved the ribs and made the bottom very stiff and therefore max speed with minimal power equals best economy.

I also used the stem shape and removed about 1/4" off both sides to expose good solid wood and the laminated back to original thickness.

Found lapstrakes so easy to remove I removed all but the top one, removed all the old finish and then refinish before reassembling the original lapstrakes. All new fasteners and 3 M5200 has made a very should and leak proof boat. Also with lapstrakes removed I cpes all sides of the lapstrakes and also the back side of the ribs which were bare wood at time of production.

I used a 4" grinder with 30 grit paper the power shape the new keel.

http://www.aerialimaging.net/john

stampbj · Post by **stampbj** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 9:00 pm

Thanks for linking your pictures John, nice to see how you did it. Did you shape the bottom of the keelson after it was in place? What did you use to cut the scarf angle on the ribs? Angle grinder or some kind of saw?

BTW John, a very nice display at the show!

Thanks,

john · Post by **john** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 4:45 am

I carefully removed and saved old keel, then used it as a template to to grind the angle on keel. 4" DeWalt 10,000 rpm grinder with 30 grit paper did a great job.

For scarfing I used a jig in a power slide arm saw. Ribs were completely removed from boat.

Call me if I can help 832 473 8928. I have unlimited long distance, call and I will call you back.

a j r · Post by **a j r** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:46 am

I agree with John, use the extra width. The additonal 20 pounds will not make that much of a difference (just don't bring that 20 pounds of beer with you on the boat!). John's method certainly worked well for him and it sounds like a very sound rebuilding method.

Good luck.

Hope you can make it to the 6th Thompson Antique & Classic Boat Rally taking place in two years, August 2008, at Marinette, WI.

Andreas

stampbj · Post by **stampbj** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:25 pm

Thanks for the invitation Andeas. That gives me a Two year window, that should be enough time for me to get this boat how I want it.

I have'nt got a pattern for the keel since I removed my old one with a putty knife and a shop vac.
I guess before I take the hull apart, I should find a nice strait 2x4 and make a pattern keel, just to keep things in shape.

Thanks for the advice,

john · Post by **john** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:13 am

Not having a keeldoes make it harder. Have you removed the garwwod yet? If not maybe you can make a pattern of the keel from the outside.

I was lucky for boat had good wood except for the keel. Just took it apart and reassebled, replacing very little, except keel. The lapstrakes screw holes lined up with the framing going back together.

stampbj · Post by **stampbj** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:39 am

John, you must have got it right if all the holes lined up again.
Yes the garwood is still in place, I like the idea of using the underside to record the angles since the inside wood is pretty bad toward the stern.
Thanks,

john · Post by **john** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:49 pm

Good thing about 3M 5200 it seems to be very forgiving about large gaps.

JoeCB · Post by **JoeCB** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:18 pm

Brad, I did just about the same work on my 57' SeaLancer ... However my garboards were OK, no need to remove or replace. Yes go /w the wider keel. As for the angular shape... mark off say 10 or 12 inch spaces inside the hull and make carboard templates to fit the changing hull angle as you move forward from the transom to the stem. Transfer these " male " templates to "female" templates, use these as guides in shaping the botton of the keel piece. I used a hand plane to ensure a nice fair line and smooth transition from the near flat at the stern to the more acute angle at the stem . Another suggestion, make the two sisters several inches longer than original so that you get maximum overlap from the keel to the stem piece... I thing that that joint is a weak spot in the original design.
p.s. did all my work from inside w/ the boat upright.
Joe

JoeCB · Post by **JoeCB** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:25 pm

oops' ... correction, refering to the Prof's 8/23 posting ... all my references to "keel" should have said "keelson" ( the big inside piece)
Joe

stampbj · Post by **stampbj** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:55 pm

More good advice!
I sure appreciate the help from you guys that have done this before.

BTW, who is "the prof"?

Thanks,