forefoot ?

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forefoot ?

Postby andre lafrance » Wed May 09, 2012 5:12 pm

at the beginning of april, i asked for some advice on the forefoot of my '57 15' sea coaster. no replies. at any rate, i tried three times to make the forefoot. BUT, i soon found that it was beyond my abilities. so, i found the manatawac bay boatworks in saugatuck, michigan. i took the forefoot (just about ready to split in half) and the stem to them to have the company make new ones. the stem was passable, but when on the boat, it no longer covered the ends of the planks. they are making a new one which i'll be able to form to the correct width. QUESTION: at the transom both nails and screws are used to hold the planks. why were only nails used at the stem? ALSO, since the forefoot will now be new, can i do the same thing - nails and screws? the screw holes at the stem planks have all been filled with dowls and epoxy so i can put the nails and/or screws anywhere along these planks. thanks for any help...
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Postby LancerBoy » Thu May 10, 2012 3:27 am

The forefoot is not the term used by Thompson Boat et.al. That may be why you did not have responses to earlier inquiries. Thompson et.al. called it the "inner stem."

You would have to find the designer of the boats to answer your question. Or maybe someone who built them. I suspect Edward Thompson was the designer and he died circa 1960.

Maybe there was not room euff for screws in addition to the nails? Maybe they didn't add screws because the plank ends were covered (are they?) by the outer stem - which is screw fastened? Maybe they felt screws would split the planks?

Andreas
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forefoot ?

Postby andre lafrance » Thu May 10, 2012 6:30 pm

thanks andreas. i'll search "inner stem" to see what i can find out. the stem was not covering the plank ends - maybe shrinkage over the years. at any rate, the new stem will be wider, and i'll be able to make sure the plank ends are covered. maybe, you can help with another question. i didn't find any bedding compound between the stem and inner stem. do you know if any was used? i did find bedding compound between the inner stem and planks when i separated them. danenberg suggests 3m 5200. do you agree with him in this area of the boat? he states that it has a longer setting time, and i am working alone. one more item: between the garboards and the outer keel, i found pieces of what look like roofing paper. was this some sort of bedding that thompson used? if so, what is it? could the 3m 5200 also be used in this area. any help is much appreciated...
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Postby Torchie » Thu May 10, 2012 7:36 pm

I'll put my 2 cents in and no disrespect to Mr Danenburg.
3M 5200 is an adhesive. Yes people use it for a sealant as well but be aware of the fact that if you use this product you will be in effect "gluing' your parts together.
Bedding compound is more of a putty that has no bonding tendencies at all.
It helps to fill in any minor imperfections between two pieces of material thus providing an even surface or bed.
If you want to use caulk I would go with a product like Boat Life. Sandable, paintable and you can still get the pieces apart if you have to.
Lets hear what others have to say.
Karl.
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Postby andre lafrance » Fri May 11, 2012 6:11 pm

thanks karl. i have heard of boat life. more research :)
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Postby thegammas » Sat May 26, 2012 5:38 am

Been a long time since I left one of my long, verbose, posts on Dockside! Here's my two cents (probably only worth 1.2 cents though :) ).

Original vs. not: If I was restoring one of these boats for show or for judging purposes, I'd want it to be as original as possible. So I would dig into topics like nails v. screws and original materials. I maintain my boat for safety and fun on the water and for all the compliments at the ramp. I love the vintage look. A Plywood deck is easier, can be made to look fantastic, and is what the builders used, but if you want to use solid planks for your deck, go for it! Want a red boat vs white, sure! My preference is that modifications or enhancements are done tastefully and in keeping with the vintage of the boat.

I'd not worry much about how the inner stem etc compares to the old in shape or taper, as long as it serves it's purpose as a key structural component.

Bedding compound: Based on what I've read, bedding compound has many purposes, but the primary one is to eliminate voids between components where water could collect and creates a water tight barrier to protect the wood . If water can get trapped between layers of planking, between garboards and Keel, between decking and deck beams, rot will follow. Bedding can also add structural strength depending on the material.

If I were putting in new structural components, such as installing garboard panels, or new strakes (hull planks) I would use 3m 5200 as a bedding compound. Yes it is a strong, structural, adhesive that creates a water tight barrier (if applied correctly), and adds structual strenght. But isn't that just what you want a hull to be? And it can be taken apart with the right tools if need be. For items like the outer keel which we are more likely to need to remove, I use 3m 4200.

Nails vs. screws. I think personal preference plays a role here as long as you are using the right materials (stainless steel is NOT always the best choice). If I were building a boat in a production fashion, I'd use nails to set pieces in place. Fast to install. Then screws as the permanent fastener. I prefer screws for thier holding power, but have you ever tried to remove a ring shank nail from healthy wood? Nay impossible.

Don Danenburg has an excellent write up on fasteners in one of his two books (cant recall if it's vol 1 or 2).
Peter Stransky
1962 Cortland Custom Sea Lancer
Wilmington, Delaware
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Postby andre lafrance » Wed May 30, 2012 4:33 pm

thanks for your input. much appreciated.
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