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keel attachment

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 1:32 pm
by andre lafrance
after six years, it is time to attach the keel and paint the hull. looking for the best method since I don't want to clog the limber hole. possibly run a bead of compound down both sides of the garboards? coat the keel then attach it to the garboards? other? any suggestions are much appreciated. as always, thanks...

Re: keel attachment

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 5:41 pm
by thegammas
Are you talking about the keelson (inside the boat) or the Keel Cap, outside the boat on the bottom of the hull?

Re: keel attachment

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:35 am
by andre lafrance
keel. outside. the part that meets up with the outer stem...

Re: keel attachment

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:17 am
by LancerBoy
You definitely want to use a flexible marine caulk under the keelson before you attached it to the bottom of the boat. Use something like BoatLife Life Caulk. Do NOT use an adhesive such as 3M 5200.

Caulk between the two garboard bottom planks before you attached the keelson. Also back butter the bottom of the keelson before you push it onto the boat. Screw it down and the excess will ooooze out. Once the keelson is attached, use your fingers to smooth out the caulk between hull planking and keelson and make a nice fillet. Have plenty of rags, paper towels, shop rags, whatever, handy because it's a messy job.

The limber holes are on the inside of the boat, so this caulk will not effect them.

Have plenty of caulk on hand - you do not want to run out in the middle of the operation. I also suggest you have extra screws at hand too, just in case you strip one out...

Good luck!

Andreas

Re: keel attachment

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:15 pm
by andre lafrance
once again, thank you...

Re: keel attachment

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 3:23 am
by Bellbuoys
I just acquired a '53 Thomboy, and the previous owner had removed the keel cap and the splash rails, set to begin a restoration. After reading about hogged keels and other issues, I want to clamp a motor on the back of this boat and see just what it is I have.
1. Is there any risk in skipping the caulking effort on the keel cap and simply screwing it back on for some trial runs around the lake? The boat would not be left in the water.
2. I also understand that the full length splash rails lent some structural integrity to the boat. It would not be my plan to reattach these for the trial runs. Anyone see any issues with this approach?
Boat will be returned to trailer awaiting restoration after trials - I'm just anxious to get out in this boat for a run.
As an aside, I'd be running a 1965 Johnson 40 hp, at least for the trials. I plan to run a 1967 33 hp on it later.
Thanks for thoughts on the above.

Re: keel attachment

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:15 am
by richnle
That's a tough call. I once did a test run with a new to me boat that was missing just a few inches of the keel cap at the transom, and by the time I launched, parked the trailer, and drove about 100 yards from the dock there was water over the floor boards in the stern. I was really surprised at how rapidly water came in from this and other leaks that hull had that were not obvious visually looking over the hull. I'd imagine over the full length of the keel cap, there would be a good chance of some significant leaks from just screwing it back in place without any sealant. If you try it, I'd make sure you have a working bilge pump, keep a watch behind you as you go and have a plan to get the boat pulled quickly if need be. I'd think that adding a layer of caulk to the top of the keel cap prior to reinstalling would provide some peace of mind without too much expense or added time.

Re: keel attachment

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:03 am
by Bellbuoys
Thanks richnle, for nothing compares to actual experience. Based upon your reply, my game plan may be revised to simply reattaching the keel cap with Boatlife caulk, per your recommendation and Andreas's note further up the page. And simply leave it in, with any repainting of the bottom done later on th assembled unit.
I see the caulk drys to tackiness in a few days, and cures in about a week under normal conditions. Is the full week cure the time recommended before putting this boat in the water?
Also, would you have a feel for how many tubes of caulk I might require for this 14' boat. My guess would be to buy 3 caulk gun size tubes, and return the excess, if any.
Thanks for sharing your experience, the greatest benefit of this forum!

Re: keel attachment

PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:51 am
by richnle
You are very welcome. 3 tubes should be more than enough but as Andreas said, you are better off with too much than too little on hand. If your intent is to leave the keel cap installed permanently after your test run, I'd lean toward letting the caulk cure before launching. I think the water pressure under there is pretty high when on plane, so I'd prefer to know everything is cured if I was not intending to remove and reseal it. At least by sealing the keel cap properly now, you can use your test run to evaluate how much the boat leaks in other areas that you will need to investigate and seal.

If you want to get a read on whether you might have handling issues from a hog or hook prior to your test run (while waiting for the caulk to cure), you can hold a long straight edge or board that you are confident is straight against the bottom of the boat running from the transom forward to each side of the keel. I think there is a good photo on the third page of the Bottom Rebuild topic. On the boat I am working on, there is about a 3/16" gap between the straight edge and the bottom of the boat, about 3ft in front of the transom. The gap is a bit more on the starboard side, and the boat both nosedives and leans left a bit when planing. If your straight edge lays flush on the bottom of the boat all the way along, you are in good shape. Good luck with all your testing!

Re: keel attachment

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 4:04 am
by Bellbuoys
Rich:
Thanks for your post. As it happened, time got short and I needed to complete the Yellow Jacket, and its motor is no longer available for the Thomboy test. I did take your suggestion and climbed underneath with a 4' straight edge, and it would appear I have a 1/4" to 3/8" hook, most pronounced about 2' from transom. I hope to get a better read this weekend when there is some extra muscle here at the lake to flip it over for a better look and keel cap installation.
I also applied your test method while looking at a Sea Coaster for sale earlier in the week. Walking around the boat, the hull, interior, and all bright work looked great. Using that 4' straight edge underneath, I could slide my fingers through the gap about 18" in from transom. The culprit was the 50 hp Johnson (a "fat fifty") on the transom on a short bunk trailer. First time I had seen one of these motors - huge, and heavy!
The experience gives one pause when looking at vintage boats on eBay!
Brad

Re: keel attachment

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:52 pm
by thegammas
It's a shame that so many otherwise great boats have been so badly damaged that way. If you can slide your fingers through the gap, she'll never be able to get to plane (without a bottom rebuild)

Re: keel attachment

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:18 am
by Bellbuoys
Peter, I have read the chronicle of your rebuild and do not believe I have the the skills, nor the patience that you have demonstrated (and so willingly shared in your postings). Any series that begins "After six years...." gives me the shivers.
My Yellow Jacket was a refinishing job, and I believe the Thomboy may be the same, though there are couple of gouges in the deck. These are both double cockpit boats, and I had fallen in love with the pictures of the Sea Coaster; the bottom, however, put me off. In addition to the hook, there were several broken ribs and some rot in the hull.

Re: keel attachment

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:21 pm
by thegammas
Thanks for the compliments! It's not so much patience as it is the enjoyment of the work. It's therapy of me.
I would love to see pictures of your Yellow Jacket (as would we all I suspect)