she leaks like a sieve - Caulk?

[thegammas]

I floated my 62 Custom Sea lancer for the first time since I owned it. As I suspected it would, the boat leaked, but more than I expected (I made sure the venturi plug was tight in). I let her float for about 30 minutes (taking pictures of course) . Before I pulled it, there was about 2 inches of water at the transom. After I pulled it onto level ground and opened the plug, what seemed like 3 gallons of water drained out.

I towed it home and after about 30 more minutes sitting there was a wet spot under the boat as water leaked a dripping rate from the outer keel about as far back as the dash. Nothing from the stern. Seems to be leaking out from under the metal strip that runs along the stem from bow tip to the forward outer keel.

I believe she has not been wet in literally decades. She was fully gone through and refinished by an experienced guy in NY. I've not taken up the floors, but when I spoke to him, he said that all the wood was sound and tight, no rot.

So, what's the best approach? Do I remove that metal strip, caulk, etc? I want to do it right so it’s correct and tight.

I was thinking of naming her "Like A Sieve" (even if she never leaks again)

[john]

Remove outer keel and calk bottom at center line under outer keel. Should help a bunch. Lapstrake boats should not leak at all.

[a j r]

The last issue of "The BoatHouse" magazine had an article about this very problem. www.acbs-bslol.com. I can email a copy to you (I am the author).

Removal of the outer keel and outer stem and cleaning it up, resealing, repainting, and recaulking sounds like the ticket to solve your problem.

Email me directly at: thompsonboat@msn.com with your conbtact info.

Andreas

[txcaptdan]

Peter,
The keel cap is just a piece of wood screwed onto the bottom and into the center keel on the inside of hull. It is a cap that covers and holds down/ clamps where the bottom plywood sheets sheets meet at center of bottom.
It is usually screwed from the outside, screws will be puttyed over, and bolted through the keel with 4-6 long bolts. If you see bolts and nuts on top of inner keel, those go all the way through to outer keel cap.
Remove metal strip, this is only to protect wood on keel cap, sand to expose bunged screws, dig out putty, remove screws, remove bolts, and drop keel cap.
The keel cap is usually scarfed near the bow where it begins to curve up, the curved bow piece should be a seperate piece.
You can then clean up under cap and inspect condition of plywood.
I had new piece of wood made for cap instead of reusing old cap, or reuse yours if in good shape. but it is just a piece of wood I would start with a fresh piece of oak, my bolts from inside had all broken off and where replaced.
The carriage bolts that where there had the heads wrapped with a cotton cord like a washer to help seal leaks.
I added additional screws through plywood sheets to better attach plywood to keel before attaching cap, applied 5200 to small gap between sheet and bedded entire cap in 5200. Reattached with new silocn brass srcews and bolts/nuts.
I have no leaks from keel cap any more.
Good luck

[txcaptdan]

Peter, After rereading your original post you just may need a bilge pump. My boat will take on about 3 gal of water intially upon launch then swell and not take anymore on. If yours only took on 3 gal over 30 min you do not have much of a problem, get a pump and that should keep you safe until she swells.
I know a lot of prurists want their boats to be bone dry, but that is the exception. I have never had a problem with a little water in the bilge, most boats that have been out of the water for years may take 2-3 days to swell to tight.
You said this boat had been gone through earlier, I would try a few more launchings before taking things apart. A little water dripping from keel after pulling her is nothing to worry about, very normal.

Try wetting inside of hull before launching next time,rinse inside with a hose, that will give things a chance to swell before launching.

[thegammas]

Thanks all for the replies - too tierd at this very moment to ponder it all - I have to take the boat off the trailer for some mods to the bucks and can get a better look then. Hoping to here from the guy whom restored her in 2005 in the next day or so. Knowing me I'll drop the outer keel.

Andreas, I'll drop you a line. txcaptdan - thanks for the detailed reply - I'll let you know how it goes.

Next question, is there any more science for checking for a hooked bottom than a straigt edge running from transom forward? I am concerned given the that bucks on the trailer stop about 6 inches shy of the transome.

[txcaptdan]

The first thing to do is get some support under transom! Transom must sit on support asap.
Extend bunks or add new bunks.
I was under mine the other day with a very strong flash light and shined it across the bottom aft to forward , this will show you big problems real quick. Mine was pretty flat but it showed slight places where ribs impressions were.
My boat originally set on a roller trailer for years and left some divits in the hull about as big as your fist right at transom. I have not done anything with these yet but probably will fill/fare them out, as the rest of the panels look great.

[thegammas]

Dan,

Have you had yours in the water and underway such that you could tell if those impressions and/or divots at the transom affected the ride/handling.

I plan to simply place jacks under the transom tonight or tomorrow just so I can sleep better. Then build some rails to sit the boat on while I modify the trailer. Kills me to think I towed that boat 370 miles from place of purchase on those short bunks.

[txcaptdan]

Peter - No I have not gotten mine under way enough to see what handeling will be like, I have had her in the water several times but have had engine problems and could not get up to plane. I do not expect to big a problem as the divits I was speaking of are small and not all way across transom . Just about 6 inches wide and they seem to be relaxing from original state.
The rest of her bottom is very true so I would suspect these would maybe cause some trim effect or lower top speed.
A friend of mine is trying to take the hog out of a 19' Offshore at the moment with water barrels, I will try and get some pics of that process.

[thegammas]

Thanks Dan, any-all information, pics, stories, options are welcome - I'm really enjoying this new hobby. I was checking out that yahoo group you mentioned up this chain.

I set up some blocks/jacks under the transom of my Lancer to support it and that heavy Merc and balance the weight of the hull across the bucks. Getting it off the trailer will be a bit tricky cause the rollers down the middle of the trailer are frozen so I cant roll it off. I'm planning to lift the boat off and pull the trailer out from under, somehow accounting for allowing the trailer wheels to clear the stands (which I will build to allow six feet or so of hull support on each side. The boat will be on them for awhile.

Couple of questions: I got some feedback that Ideally the keel supports little or no weight of the boat when on the trailer or on stands. Thoughts? And, given your experience, can I remove just the outer stern and not the outer keel? It appears that is where my issue is - the outer keel shows not visible gaps against the hull.

[Ron P]

URL=http://imageshack.us][/URL]

Here are two pictures showing what you will find under a keel cap. One pic is at the turn of the bow the other shows back by transom.
You will notice how the plywood is nailed to the inside keel. My boat had some rot in inside keel ,so when I removed that section with all the nails it left the plywood bottom mulched up!!!!..Some epoxie did the trick.

Before you put the keel cap back in place . I think some cpes should brushed in to the gap then some Boatlife brand caulk . Used to fill gap between garboards. Then put caulk on both mating cerfaces of boat bottom and keel cap. ( The Boatlife brand caulk will let you remove the cap in the future, ) It hope the helps. My 2 cents Ron P.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/waddlep20 ... pg&.src=ph

[txcaptdan]

Peter, If you are asking if you can remove keel cap from behind bow to stern without removing cap on bow - yes. If you look closely at photo of my cap repair you can see where I angle cut to make scarf joint in keel cap to remove cap from there to stern. I then reattched new wood and set screws either side of scarf and epoxyed joint together.

As to boat resing on keel, my 20' sets on keel rollers for about the first 3-4' behind bow curve and rests on bunks elsewhere including supporting bunks under trailer. The back 2 rollers aft are just touching keel but not supporting weight.

I have supported my hull several times with supports under transom at keelsons, as you can see in photo and support at forward keel cap with come-along attached to lifting ring, this was with out engine on hull.

[thegammas]

Thanks guys for the pics and advice - my plans now are to remove both the outer stem and keel cap - clean out the joint at the garboards, treat with CPES, Boat life Caulk to seal the gap, Boat life caulk and new fasteners to reinstall the caps. This assumes the story holds true that there is no rot under the floors around keel and keelsons. If false, then on-ward and in-ward depending on what I find. Wont get started for a few weeks minimum, but I'll post back pictures and stories of progress (forward or backward) when I get started.